Giorgia: [00:00:00] Hi everyone, and welcome. I am Giorgia Diodoro, senior Marketing and Communication Specialist at Tangoo. Uh, really happy to be here with you today and to be hosting this webinar. This session is part of Tangoo's online series where we bring together great minds to explore the future of programmatic advertising.

At Tangoo, we believe in, uh, creating space for different voices, sharing experiences, and learning from each other. And that's exactly what today is about because today's topic is, uh, women leading success in programmatic advertising. And here's the thing, women are already, uh, a powerful presence in this industry.

And just to give you, uh, some numbers. In Europe, women hold 59% of specialist role and [00:01:00] 55% of managerial role in digital marketing. And in the US the figures are 46% and 43% respectively. So we're talking about what's already happening. Women are already shaping where programmatic is going, and that's why we are here today to hear from some of the brilliant women behind that success and get inspired by their story's perspective and insight.

So let me introduce today's amazing panel. Uh, Charlotte Graham Cumming, CEO at Ice Blue Sky. And Greta Badini, client services manager at samba tv. I'd love, uh, for our speakers to introduce themselves. 

Greta: Sure. Uh, I can, I can go first. Uh, my name is Greta and I've been, uh, working and living in London, uh, for the last nine years.

And, uh, for six years I've been working in programmatic advertising. I've had different roles, uh, starting off [00:02:00] on agency side, uh, and then I moved, uh, more into ad tech.

Charlotte: Great. Hi, I'm Charlotte. Uh, so I'm, uh, as Giorgia said, I'm the CEO of Ice blue Sky. We're a B2B marketing agency. So programmatic is part of what we do. It's not all of what we do. Uh, I've been running the agency for about 18 years. Prior to that, I was client side for nearly 10 years. Um, so I've been in the industry a long time.

I'm in, in the technology sector that those are the clients that we work with. So, yeah, got a, got a lot of experience in a lot of what we're going to talk about today. I. 

Giorgia: Thank you. Thank you. Uh, okay. Uh, today we'll dive into a variety of topics from leadership and skills to personal experiences. Uh, with the goal of opening up a conversation that inspires and empowers, uh, I'll be guiding the discussion with a few question and each of our speaker will have space to share their thoughts.[00:03:00] 

So, let's get started. Uh, my first question is, uh, what first brought you into programmatic advertising and what aspect of the industry have kept you passionate and engage during your career, especially considering how quickly it evolves? Uh, Greta, let's start with you. 

Greta: Sure. Um. Programmatic advertising is a bit of a, a quirky, quirky place to, to work in.

It's not something you, you study, uh, in school or university. Uh, so me, like, like many people I know kind of fell into it because of some connection. So in my case, um, one of my friends, uh, was working at and, uh, she worked in a data role. Uh, so not, not really, uh, working in programmatic, but she recommended to go to the early careers day, see if I like, [00:04:00] uh, the environment and, and see what kind of opportunities were available.

So I interviewed for a couple of roles there and I got offered a position as a programmatic trader. I knew absolutely nothing about what programmatic trading entailed. Uh, so it was a steep learning curve, like any, like, any job. Um, but what I really liked about it is that I kept on learning. So years after, years, even, even today, uh, every day, uh, I learned something new.

And this is something that, uh, really motivating for me to, to get better every day. Another thing that I really liked was the fact that you could, uh, measure, uh, your impact. Uh, with the programmatic campaign, there's so many metrics to look at and so many levers to cool to make things better. So also seeing that gave me, gave me a lot of satisfaction, uh, in my roles, um, starting out, you know, managing the campaigns [00:05:00] themselves, and then later on, uh, helping clients makes the most or, uh, programmatic, uh, platform.

Uh, and finally the last thing that, um, I like about. I still like about, uh, working programmatic is the problem solving aspect with so many technologies, so many things can go wrong. And, and what I like is getting the problem, tackling it, solving it, and then ultimately driving, uh, sectors for our clients.

Charlotte: Nice. Yeah, I think for me, um, and obviously I'm a bit further on in years and my career, um, and I, I kind of, well, I fell into marketing generally. I mean, obviously that's my background more than programmatic, but I, I fell into marketing by accident. I worked, I was working in the us uh, worked for a startup, which became very successful and is now part of IBM.

And I started off, uh, I was doing pre-sales, I was doing training in enterprise software and then went [00:06:00] into alliances and then went into marketing and I think. One of the things I love about it, and particularly about when you run an agency, because it's very fast paced, you're doing something different every half an hour, sometimes every 15 minutes.

You have to, you know what, this is like both of you, I'm sure you know, where you suddenly have to, you might be talking about one particular type of product, and then you have to do a complete 180 and suddenly be an expert in a different type of product that, that you're promoting and or service. Um, and I love that.

I love that craziness and that pace and, and all the different things that you get involved with. Um, so yeah, I think, I think for me, and, and like you said, Greta, you know, problem solving, you know, tackling all those different things and you know, and, and it is lovely to see. It's really interesting to hear those figures that you shared Georgia, because it's interesting to me that Europe is kind of ahead.

Of the US in, in women in the sector. Um, I'm not gonna get [00:07:00] into a political discussion, but that didn't necessarily surprise me. Um, it was just interesting to hear and I, I, I often wonder if this fast pace, you know, it suits the females psyche. I think know the fact that we can, you know, do lots of different things at once.

Um, think quickly on our feet, think six steps ahead. I think, you know, those have been proven to be some strong traits. So, yeah, I think chucking out a little bit of controversy there.

Giorgia: Okay. Thank you. Uh, my, uh, next question for you, uh, is, uh, okay. Women are playing an increasingly visible role in leadership across a tech. Uh, and based on your experience, uh, what has helped you grow into leadership roles and what kind of support or action, personal or collective do you think that can really make a difference in helping other women [00:08:00] advance in their careers?

Charlotte? 

Charlotte: Yeah. I think for me, if I, if I look back over my career, um, you know, I had to. I had to be quite pushy at times because, you know, and I know this won't be a surprise to any, any women listening, but, you know, I started work in, uh, 1989, so I've, I've been in the workplace a long time and it's changed drastically in, in those years, which is great.

It's still got some way to go. But I think, you know, one of the things that we have to overcome, which I don't think is always understood on the other side of the table, is we've been socially conditioned growing up. To be quiet, to be good, to not rock the boat, to not make a fuss. Um, so for a lot of women that can be hard to do.

I think for a lot of men that comes much more naturally and they're not punished for it. Whereas as women we [00:09:00] often are, you know, I, I was on a panel last week and I shared a story where, when I was at sixth form, so I was about 17, 18, I got thrown out of the class for asking too many questions. Um, and I think, oh, I'm not sure that would happen if I hadn't been a girl.

Um, you know, so the teacher was much older and, you know, there was some mitigating factors there, but I just think it, so when you come into the workplace, and, you know, certainly for women of my generation and I, and I, I can see that it's different for like my daughters who are in their twenties. Um, but you know, I think having, having the ability to question, to be curious, to not let fear.

Make your decisions for you, you know, because, and not, and not second guessing what you know is the right thing to do and, and letting fear stop you from speaking up. Um, and you know, I've, I've had [00:10:00] varying success at that over the years. Um, you know, and, and I think the other thing as well that we need to do and is be people that get things, get things done.

Um, and you can put some guardrails in place there. So it's not just making coffee, but be known as the person that get things done. And that's a really good way to get noticed in a way that doesn't require a complete personality transplant.

Greta: Yeah, it's really, it's really interesting to, to hear, uh, like a different perspective. So when I, uh, started out, uh, working things were a little bit different. We kind of all started the same place, which is great, especially, which is great, especially my first role. Um, but, but then, you know, going up from there, that's where you start to see differences and, and what you said about [00:11:00] speaking up and, and asking questions.

I find I find that, you know, it's hard, but in programmatic specifically, it's maybe easier because there's so much and nobody knows everything. The, all these different niches. Maybe you know everything about the supply side. Maybe you know everything about the demand side, but there's always space to ask questions and just say, Hey, I've actually have not worked with this platform before.

I've not worked with this type of creative before. How does it work? So. It, it is hard, but at the same time, um, I felt like, okay, I can actually speak up and say, Hey, I don't know this. Yeah. Can you, can you help me? And that, and that really helped me learn more, like pass track, uh, my learning. And 

Charlotte: that's the power of vulnerability, isn't it?

I think, you know, being able to, and again, I think this is quite a feminine strength, is being able to put [00:12:00] yourself out there, being vulnerable in a room, um, where you can admit that you don't know everything. I think. And that's such a strong, and that creates a strong connection I think, then with everybody in the room.

Um, and, and the, the level of collaboration just goes up several notches when, when you are, you know, you're comfortable doing that. 

Greta: Absolutely. And then when I got on the other side, managing a team, that's what I kept saying. If you don't understand what I'm saying, you need to let me know. They don't stay there silent waiting for, you know, somebody to ask you a question you don't know.

Yeah. 

Charlotte: Uh, just speak up. And that's, that's a really good point, Greta, because you know, you, you talk about sort of people sitting there and I think especially when they're younger and they're newer in career, they might not, they might think that everyone else in the room knows what they're doing. Um, and uh, which is not true most of the time.

But, but I think, and I think that's what we can do as leaders, can't we? We can create a safe space. [00:13:00] For people to speak up and ask questions. You know, I, I see this in our agency. I, I focus a lot on culture in our agency. It's really important to me. When I was client side, I saw some pretty toxic agency cultures and I've been determined that I was never gonna allow that at Ice Blue sky.

And so we've had people come in from other agencies that have been more difficult and people are sort of not traumatized, but you know, they've been really impacted by working in an environment where vulnerability is not encouraged or supported, where people were just expected to carry on on their own, particularly if they're working virtually and not to bother other people and ask for help.

So I think as when we are leaders, it's really important for us to create those environments that nurture. People feeling comfortable with asking questions and admitting, okay, I don't know this, but how can we, how can we talk about that [00:14:00] so that I can solve this problem? I think it's a really important point.

Greta: Yeah. Working virtually is a whole whole other, that's a whole other topic. Topic I, I cannot imagine starting out from home. You know, people started working in 20, 20, 21, and this has been, you know, the foundation, uh, of their, of their jobs. And I remember in, in my first job, we were every day sleeping next to each other, um, sometimes coming back less than 12 hours later in the same place.

And that really created really strong bond. We can ask them and the managers as well. 

Charlotte: Yeah. And that's how you learn. That's how you build your learning, isn't it? And you sort of, and whereas if, 'cause if you're sitting next to somebody, you are more likely to just ask them a quick question, whereas you're not gonna hop on a Zoom, um, and set up a whole call to do it.

Um, and I try and encourage, [00:15:00] particularly the younger members of the team to use their phones and ring people up. It's a very old fashioned form of communication, but it's very effective. You know, just ring people up, ask 'em a question or drop them WhatsApp if you feel more comfortable doing that. But sort of having, having access to that sort of more immediate question and answer method, I think yeah.

Is, is really important. 

Giorgia: Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Uh, my, uh, next question is, uh. Finding your voice in leadership space is a journey that many professionals face, uh, Charlotte. Uh, you've spoken about shifting from fear to empowerment. Could you share how that shift has impacted the way you lead and express your ideas?

Charlotte: Definitely, definitely. I think, I think a lot of us are not just women, but everybody [00:16:00] are let, are driven and controlled by fear more than we realize now. Not, not as in fear of a lion suddenly jumping out from behind a tree, but fear of putting ourselves out there or fear of looking bad in front of other people, or fear of making the wrong decision.

But it's very hard to recognize that within yourself, um, without doing some work around. Um, understanding and recognizing when fear is driving that decision making. So I, for example, I've done this for a long time now, send myself an email every day, uh, with the subject line. What would I do if I wasn't afraid?

And it's, it's a reminder for me, um, that has never stopped being useful. So it's a reminder for me because we all get tired, we all get stressed out, overwhelmed. You know, we've all got other stuff going on as well outside of work. So it's very easy to get caught up in your own head. And not [00:17:00] realize that's what you are doing.

Um, so that email for me is a reminder to step back and think, okay, the decisions I need to make today, am I making them from a position of clarity or a position of foggy fear because I'm worried about X, Y, Z, which may or may not have anything to do with work. And, and for me, that's been really helpful in, um, progressing and, and looking at how I make decisions more objectively.

Um, and, and that can be anything really small. You know, for example, I reached out to somebody on LinkedIn. I didn't know them. Um, I just liked what they posted. So I reached out to them and asked for a conversation, and we met up and, and now they're a, they're a big partner company of ours and have really helped us grow as a company.

And I, it would've been so easy to have talked myself out of doing it in the first place because it would've been like, oh, he probably doesn't wanna hear from me, and [00:18:00] what have I got to offer? And dah, dah, dah, dah. And that's the fear talking. And, and the more you can make yourself aware of when the fear is talking, um, it doesn't mean you do everything.

You say yes to everything, but it just means. You do it from a point of clarity, not from an emotional or thought driven fog, um, but recognizing it is the hard part. And, um, I know you guys asked me to bring some, uh, book and podcast recommendations, which I'm always boring my team with. Um, but there's a really good book, there's two really good books you should read if you want to kind of progress in that direction.

And I, one of them is called The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer. Um, really, really good book. And the other one is A New Earth by Eckhart Tole, and they both talk about the same thing in two different ways. So it's useful to read both, to sort of see which speaks to you and. Eck cart tole is one. [00:19:00] Um, the, there's a podcast he did with Oprah where they talk through the 10 chapters in the book and people phone in to ask questions.

And it's so good for doing exactly that, helping you recognize when you are being driven by your subconscious and not by being in the now and dealing objectively with things. So, sorry, I realize I rambled on there, but you can tell I'm really passionate about this. 

Greta: Yeah, that, that's really interesting what you said Charlotte about the, about the email.

For me, I kind of get lost, uh, in the day to day a lot. So I just make loads of decisions, one after the other, one after the other about different topics. And what I, uh, so sometimes struggle with is taking a step back. I. Thinking about more, longer, longer term decisions and things that might affect me within six months or like six years from now.

[00:20:00] So maybe that's, that's one of the reminders that I'm gonna, I'm gonna put for, for myself. And then another thing that, that you mentioned, uh, really resonated with me about, uh, reaching out to people, just asking for a conversation. I, um, struggle with that and, and what really helped me, uh, has been reaching out to people asking for advice actively both, um, as like a formal mentorship or just informal, just going out for a coffee and having that, that person helping you up throughout and just giving you a little nudge to reach out to other people to get on that webinar and write that blog post.

And just, just getting yourself out there a bit more. 

Charlotte: Um, that's a really good point because I, and I think with me mentors, whether they're formal or informal, it's really good to know what you want ahead of time. Not necessarily in detail, but sort of giving [00:21:00] them a steer as to what you are looking to achieve.

And I think, you know, your point, Greta, about being able to step back from the day to day and think about where you want to go longer term. You know, one of the things I've started doing is blocking out, uh, Mondays for that type of thing. So keeping my diary really clear from calls or if I do have calls, they're more about helping in supporting the team internally than they are doing external things.

Um, and. Really sort of taking that time to think, okay, the general direction I want to go in. I mean, you hear this all the time. You hear people talk about, oh, you know, you gotta go for your goals, you gotta do this. Yes you do, you, but you gotta know a general direction because life is gonna throw you curve balls and opportunities along the way.

And again, I think a reason for, you know, helpful to, to step back and to think about whether or not fear is driving your decision making, um, is so that you can [00:22:00] spot opportunity when it comes and, and you can, and you can accept, and I was having a call with somebody about this this morning. You can accept.

When failure happens, because failure does happen. And this is something they don't teach you at school, which is, and we, and I, and I call it the Instagram effect, where everybody looks instantly successful and they're not. And, and the reality of business particularly is that you will fail things you do, we do because we think it's gonna work out.

We hope it's gonna work out. And especially in programmatic, because that can change on a dime, um, very quickly. And then you can pull the levers, as you were saying and change it. But I think accepting that failure happens, but seeing it as a step on the journey and not an outcome in itself, I think that's also quite important.

Giorgia: Thank you. And my next question is, uh, what qualities or [00:23:00] skills have been key to your journey in programmatic advertising and. There are, uh, are there any particular strengths or approaches that, uh, you think deserve more recognition in your industry? Uh, I'd love to start with Greta.

Greta: Yes. Um, so I think one of the main things that helped me, uh, in my career, uh, was being curious, genuinely curious about things. Uh, I was talking a lot about problem solving. Well, sometimes problems kind of resolve themselves without you doing anything. And I think in those situations, going the extra mile and actually digging a little bit deeper, wait, why is this now working?

Rather than just be like, okay, this works, whatever. Um, really help me get to the bottom of things and prevent. [00:24:00] Problems, uh, down the line. So curiosity is the number, number one thing. Other aspects, uh, that I found because I've always worked, um, on um, kind of account management, client services side, uh, was having a good mix of, uh, skills.

Uh, so people skills, but also analytical skills. So having, uh, both. Really, uh, it was really helpful in, in this space because there's a lot of reports that you need to pull a lot of, uh, tables and, you know, spreadsheets, but at the same time, um, you're also speaking to speaking to people all the time. So trying to understand their needs, what they're looking for, uh, and how to make them feel valued, that's key for, for success in this space.

Charlotte: Yeah, I would completely agree. I think curiosity is, is a huge one. I think, you know, curiosity is [00:25:00] useful in business. Full stop. Um, because I think it makes, like you were saying, Greta, it makes you curious about problem solving. It makes you curious about people and, and as you say, Greta, you know, it's really important and it's one of the things I love about what we do.

We can really help people achieve their objectives and make them look really good in their job. And, and that ultimately is what we're all here to do and drive business. So, yeah, I think, I think those are really good points. I think it's, the curiosity kind of underpins a lot. And as I was saying earlier, you know, be a person that is known for getting things done and picking up the slack, you know, helping people when they need it without expectation of return.

You know, having all of those, those qualities make you a good person to work with, but they also make you a more effective person, I believe.[00:26:00] 

Giorgia: Okay. And, uh. Looking at the future of, uh, programmatic advertising, uh, what's one thing you're excited about? And, uh, if you could make one change to help the industry become even more inclusive, what would that be? Chand? 

Charlotte: So, um, I think I'll, I'll start with the latter part first. What change would I make?

And, and it it's related to how I've ended up on this, uh, uh, on this session is because I went to a, a agency founder's dinner and I was the only female founder in the room. And, and there were probably, what, 20 or 30 people there, Greta, something like that. Um, and I think that's a change that needs to happen then, you know, yes, there are more women in the industry.

There are more men, more women at managerial level, but there need to be more female founders. You know, there need to be more people in the really senior leadership roles that can [00:27:00] impact the direction of travel, because it's like any, any industry, the, the greater of a variety that you have, and not just in gender, but also in ethnicity, the more inclusive your programs will be and the, the better those programs will be because they will be taking into account different points of view, different behaviors from different groups of people, different preferences.

So just, you know, I love the word inclusivity. I know it gets sort of, um, used weaponized a little bit, but I think inclusivity is exactly what it means. It's, you know, having, having more of, more of a mix of people driving these programs. Will make them more effective because they will appeal to more people out there in, in consumer land or in, in the B2B world.

So I think for me, seeing that on the increase is exciting. And, and it would be great to see more female founders. So if, if you're out there thinking about it, do it.[00:28:00] 

Greta: I had love to, um, hear what you think about this, Charlotte. So over the last few years we've had an increase in flexibility, uh, with working and in my opinion, that really benefits, uh, women especially. Um, what do you think about this? Yeah, I, 

Charlotte: I think it's a great thing. I, you know, as I said, you know, with culture at Ice Blue Sky, that includes offering a lot of flexibility to people.

I think there has to be a bit of give and take in that scenario because there are, I. There's just certain things that the business has to be able to deliver, so, which does impact flexibility. So I think taking that into account is, is really important. But I agree. I think, you know, if, if you, it just makes sense because if you have business set up a certain way for a certain group of people, it's only gonna work for those [00:29:00] people.

So any inclusivity initiatives that you do aren't gonna work because that environment was designed for those people. Um, you know, I was reading an article last week, it is a little off tangent, but it supports the point around why there are always cues in ladies' toilets and not in men's. And it's because toilets are designed by men for the large part and not, and obviously they don't have any experience of going to the toilet as a woman.

'cause why would they? And it's the same thing with the work environment. If you've got such a structured work environment that works for. A particular group of people, you have to change the work environment as well in order to make things more inclusive. So yeah, I a hundred percent support that.

So from, sorry, Giorgia, I was just gonna say from your point of view, Greta, 'cause as you said earlier, obviously you are quite a bit younger than me and you know, when you came into work, you sort of saw one level. How, how do you kind of see [00:30:00] women are sort of changing that industry's direction? It's, I'm curious.

Greta: So, um, I see a lot of, uh, progression, um, from, you know, the very, um, entry level kind of roles into mid kind of management roles. Uh, what I am yet to see a lot is what you were talking about. So further, I. A further step up. And, um, it is, it is tricky, isn't it? Like I, I think it is tricky for, for everyone, of course, to, to be at the top, but I find that, uh, women sometimes often get extra obstacles, uh, put in the way.

Um, some are external, some are also internal though. So I've read, um, a really good book a few years ago, um, called How Women Rise, and it was all talking, it was talking about a few [00:31:00] habits that are not a hundred percent, you know, women specific, like could be some, uh, some men also having these behaviors, but they tend to be more common, commonly seen in women.

And some of these are, for example, minimizing your work or. Keep say saying we did this rather than I, it's like small things, but when you pay attention to those, you, you can make some, some really tangible, uh, changes in the way you work. And, and I have seen, uh, the difference in how I'm received, how my opinion gets heard in, uh, in meetings.

So definitely want to note, maybe we can write a, a list to send out with the 

Charlotte: webinar. Yeah, great idea. I love that. I, it is so important, isn't it? It's the language that we use that that makes such a big difference. And it's also encouraging, I think, other people to, to overcome their own sort of [00:32:00] inherent biases that they probably aren't even aware of.

You know? Because if a woman comes into a meeting. And it is, well, let's say a man comes into the meeting and he's called commanding, and a woman could come into the same meeting, behave in exactly the same way, and be called demanding. So we're held to a different standard right off the bat, you know, immediately we're held to a different standard.

And I think exactly what you're saying, the language we use can help break down some of those barriers and assumptions and expectations.

Giorgia: I have to be honest, I was really captivated by this conversation, so thank you so much, uh, because that was great. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for 

Charlotte: having me. 

Giorgia: And, and it's been really inspiring to hear your stories, your insight, [00:33:00] and. I'm sure that our audience has learned so much. Um, before we close, I'd love for each of you to share, uh, how people can connect with you, whether it's LinkedIn, your company, website, or anything else you'd like to highlight.

Charlotte: Yeah, just look me up on LinkedIn. I think. Um, well there is another Charlotte Graham coming in the uk but she doesn't work in my industry, so you, you can find me quite easily.

Greta: Yeah, same, same for me. You can find me on LinkedIn. I think I'm the only one, so I'll be easy.

Giorgia: Okay. Thank you to all, uh, our amazing speakers today. It's been a pleasure hosting this important discussion. And for those of you watching, don't forget to connect with the speakers on LinkedIn and be sure to check out Tangoo for more about programmatic advertising [00:34:00] solutions. Uh, this is the third event in our series and we'll be back next month with more exciting discussion and more incredible speakers from the ad tech world.

So make sure to stay tuned for future events and if you're interested in learning more about, uh, out who can help you with programmatic advertising needs, feel free to reach out to us directly. And thank you all again for joining today, uh, and we hope to see you all next month. Have a wonderful day.

Thank you, Giorgia. Thanks for being a great host. Thank you. Thank you.

Mirela: [00:35:00] Hi everyone. I'm Mirela. Thanks for joining us today. I'm thrilled to be sitting down with someone who truly represents, uh, what it means to grow, lead, and give back At Tangoo, the one and only Dani. Dani has been with Tangoo for an incredible 17 years. Yep, 17. And in that time, she's not only grown with the company, but helped shaped it on what is it today?

From building teams from scratch to stepping into leadership and navigating solo business, travel to mentoring the next generation of talents, uh, Dani's Gen Gener. Dani's journey is packed with insights and inspirations. Uh, we are diving, uh, into everything from career transactions to lessons learned in programmatic with a special focus, uh, on what it means to be a woman driven in, uh, this space.

Let's get straight into it. Uh, Dani, you've been in the industry for 17 years, [00:36:00] that's an incredible journey. Can you please tell us how your role has evolved over time and what's helped you grow within the company? 

Daniela: Yeah. Um, it's been quite all right. Uh, if you think about 17 years, it sounds like a lot, and of course it is.

I mean, it is a lot. Uh, but to me never felt, let's say that long, uh, because things have changed so much in the way and. Uh, I remember when I, when I started, the company had already, uh, departments, uh, it was of course smaller than it is now. It was very hands on. Everyone was very, uh, one of the things that I'm very proud about in the starting 10 years is to not only not feeling it, but [00:37:00] also the fact that, uh, I could build a team, uh, the PD team from scratch.

And, uh, I remember it was just me and some campaign managers at the beginning. Uh, we were trying to figure things out on our own, uh, in a very feel good way, but of course, in a smaller, uh, dimension. And today it's. It's real team, it's growing. We are now nine people, and it's, uh, evolving year after year, I would say also month after month.

Uh, and this is something that, uh, really, really motivates me. Uh, one really helped me a lot, I would say the trust that I was given, uh, and my curiosity. I've always, always seemed very [00:38:00] curious, uh, very proactive. And, uh, I need to also say that I was very lucky to be in an environment that, uh, accepted my curiosity and the fact that, uh, the company made me experiment, uh, make mistakes like we always do.

Uh, try again, not be too disappointed. By my mistakes and I never felt stuck in the box. So the freedom that I had, I think made, 

Mirela: it's honestly so inspiring to hear how you build the affiliate team from scratch that I'm proud to say I'm part of. I remember when I first joined Tangoo, uh, three years ago, the foundation you, uh, you build was already so strong.

It's what helped me get into my feet. Uh, I think a lot of us on the team, [00:39:00] um, felt the same trust and freedom you mentioned it's really makes a big difference where you are encouraged to be curious and take initiative. Um, but shifting careers internally can be both, um, exciting and challenging. Uh, what's that transition been like for you and what advice would you give to, uh, someone navigating through a similar shift?

Daniela: I would say it's, it's a mix of both. It's a mix of exciting and scar challenging. Uh, for me, the biggest shift was moving from more operational, uh, executional very specific role, like doing what was needed at that time, you know, like do this and then do that, uh, into a more strategic and leadership focused role.

Um, [00:40:00] that was a big move that I had to make. Uh, I have to say, I was never scared about that. Uh, it bring me, it brought me so much joy and so much happiness because, uh, the, the thing that I was most happy about was I. Not having to do things on myself anymore. Uh, and also to be able to share a vision to, to, to communicate, guide the team, uh, thinking long term.

So not right here, right now. Uh, and well, really, really helped me, I have to say was my, uh, you know, allowing myself, giving myself the permission to not have the all answers right away. Of course, when you begin something new, you [00:41:00] would expect everything to worth, magically. It is not. Uh, and we often put a lot of pressure on ourself without even, even thinking, you know, that we, it's like not really voluntary that, that we would put so much pressure.

Expectations on what to do. Uh, because the, the truth is that at the end of the day, uh, every new step comes with a lot of, uh, things to learn. And being honest with, with ourself and not too judgmental, uh, really, really helps with yourself and your team. Um, well, as an advice, my first advice to everyone, to my team members, to people that I need, that are starting now is to be curious.[00:42:00] 

Curiosity helps always in life. And, uh, also, I really, really appreciate people that ask for feedback. So again, instead of being too judgmental on yourself, try to understand. From an external feedback's going, uh, well and not well in order to, to improve, uh, leaning to the discomfort in the most positive way, uh, even though it's hard, but in the discomfort, uh, discomfort is really the place where growth happens.

Um, if we approach it in the, the most positive way possible, which is with an honest communication at the end of the day. Uh, having a positive mindset, we really helps, uh, because also it changes the way that people around you, uh, perceive, uh, [00:43:00] your presence. So if you have a positive presence, also the people around you will help you.

Mirela: I will definitely add this to my Danny Advisors folder. Um. Another, um, exciting part of our job is, uh, traveling for work. So traveling solo for work is something, uh, many women experience. Sometimes it is empowering, sometimes it is daunting. What have been your experiences and how do you manage it? 

Daniela: Uh, well, not boring, first of all.

Uh, I try to, to never get bored, uh, as you say. Yeah. I've done a lot of solo travel, uh, for work. Uh, honestly, uh, as soon as I have time I try to combine, uh, with, with a project. Uh, [00:44:00] so of course in the beginning, uh, it felt a little bit intimidating, uh, because of course you landed to a new city. You, especially if you have never been in the city before, it can be a little scary.

Um, you have to figure out everything on your own. So you have to be very practical. Uh, and sometimes, you know, you wish you had someone also to share the experience with, even though everything goes well and you don't have, you know, any, any unfortunate things or if you are, uh, I dunno, you dunno where, where to go, for example.

Uh, so I don't, I don't think I, I've ever, uh, suffered, let's say about traveling solo. Um, but I, to start to enjoy is a different [00:45:00] thing. Like start, start to enjoy traveling solo for work comes with experience. So. I understand when, especially women and especially nowadays, unfortunately, uh, might feel a little scared about this.

Of course, uh, you need to always know your whereabouts. Uh, but on the positive side, I have to say that for example, creating your own rituals, even when you are by yourself, is a good thing because again, you know where to go. You feel more secure, more independent. Um, you go to your favorite coffee stop.

You go to walk in your favorite walk around the city, you know, you enjoy a museum or a concert. Um, and it's also a great way, I, I [00:46:00] take this moment also to reconnect with myself because it's a moment when. I can stay, uh, with myself and think, uh, and enjoy in, in the most positive way. Uh, even though, as I say, as I said before, yeah, I understand that it, it's pretty complicated, especially nowadays because they became a high priority.

I wish there were more, uh, you know, tools, let's say, but also ways to enjoy more a trip or a woman that travels by herself. Uh, like for example, I don't know, I'm just thinking tax for women with, you know, buy the prices for example, or, you know, places marked as safe. Uh, sometimes there's one thing. [00:47:00] Uh, that I really, really like about having like a safe word that you can sell the bartender, uh, for when you have a reading that is not going in the, the, the positive way.

Of course that will not say the word, but, but there is one. It's something that should be encouraged more, uh, in order for us to, to enjoy, uh, and feel, uh, at the best of our energy while doing it. 

Mirela: Yes, I remember the first time I traveled solo for work. Uh, I was so nervous. Uh, but actually you were the one who, um, who told me to just go and make the most out of it.

Um, Dani, when you look back, uh, on your journey, what are some of the most important lessons you've learned and, um, you think that other women in the industry could benefit from, 

Daniela: well, especially women. Uh, are made [00:48:00] by instinct. So when I go back, uh, I believe that one of the biggest last steps I learned is to try trust my instinct.

You know, the six sta six sense that we always say we have. Uh, sometimes we second guess ourself, uh, too much. As I was saying before. Sometimes we're too, uh, we judge ourself too much. Yeah, we're too hard. Uh, I would advise to, uh, don't feel the need to be over prepared just because of you are a woman. Uh, of course, be prepared before you speak up like everyone should do.

Uh, but honestly, sometimes if you know what you're talking about, you can follow your instinct and also let. That guide you and let your, [00:49:00] uh, perspective bring, uh, something more, especially you in the meeting and bring real value. Uh, I, I don't think we should wait for someone to, to really validate, uh, what we want to say.

Uh, and also another thing is to embrace imperfection. Don't, don't, don't think you have to be perfect every time. Uh, sometimes I remember I hesitated a little bit to, to, to take some opportunities or to say something because I may leave. I didn't feel I was fully ready. Uh, and I wanted to wait until I was perfect.

We will never, I don't think it will never be perfect. And this is of course, valuable, sometimes even more. Uh, but grow. Uh, really comes when you feel 100% is [00:50:00] when you feel that you need to do that additional set. That sometimes something in you, uh, lets you, gives you that instinct. And it's, it's very important to, to, to follow again and to, uh, have your instinct help you.

Uh, because it will always, uh, guide you in a way and also help, uh, with the, uh, work relationship that you will have if you are a person that is Overstructured. Also, the people around you will feel you like a little cold and. Uh, we really don't need that. Like we, we can be ourself also in our job experience, and [00:51:00] this will help also building stronger relationships, uh, because people will love to spend time with you.

Imagine, uh, having a conversation with someone that was scared or looks, you know, intimidated. Uh, I think that we should really let our, uh, the things that 

Mirela: scare us, we should let them go. In your experience, uh, what key skills have helped you succeed in programmatic and what advice would you give, uh, to women entering the space now?

Well, I'm not a technical 

Daniela: person, so I. My ability of communicating my curiosity again, uh, but also speaking about programmatic specifically, I would say the, uh, adaptability. Uh, [00:52:00] so being adaptable because, uh, programmatic, especially something that enables, uh, quickly, we have seen so many things changing. Uh, what literally worked last year will not be valid today.

So, um, if you are curious, if you are open to change and, uh, you want to explore like new tools also to communicate your client, your curiosity, uh, and your, uh, ability to find something new, that would help a lot because, uh, being able to, to explain something so. Complex as programmatic looks like, uh, is, is hard sometimes.

And the ability to make it simple and to communicate it in a, in a simple way makes a [00:53:00] difference. Uh, and this is valuable also for your team, your colleagues. So being able to transform something that with complicated helps a lot to build trust and to, to drive decisions. So again, don't be intimidated, uh, biotech, uh, by the textile thing.

Of course you will probably need support. Uh, but you don't have to know everything, first of all, and everything from day one. Uh, if you accept to learn step by step, if you accept. That is totally fine to ask questions that don't want no one is, is expecting you to know everything and don't be too shy, uh, to have technical conversation and to say, I [00:54:00] didn't understand this.

Can you please explain, uh, in a way that I can understand completely? Uh, these are the really valuable conversations. I believe that this is where the real insights are. 

Mirela: Yes, it's, uh, really an industry that changes, uh, very fast and you have to, to, to be up to date, uh, with everything that is going on. Uh, but actually you've always made programmatic feel less intimidating.

I remember when I first started, uh, and felt totally overwhelmed with all the acronyms. You really showed me that asking questions. Uh, it's not something, uh, that you should see as weakness, but, um, this is the way how we grow. Uh, but let's talk now about your role models. Um, who have been, the people who have inspired or supported your along the way [00:55:00] and how that, uh, has shaped your career.

Daniela: Well, I think, I think I've been lucky because I had the chance to cross paths with people that really began. So before speaking about role models, again, it's very important to highlight the fact that we have to also be lucky in life to have people that trust us and it's not always to be taken for granted.

Um. But I really had the space to grow again. So I had to be thankful for that. And also for the colleagues, I have to be very, very thankful. Um, and speaking about inspiration, when, when you ask me who your role model is, uh, it doesn't really rely, uh, [00:56:00] on, on the job, on the job, uh, environment. It's more, it's more personal.

So you are inspired more like from personality side of people rather than career side. So I, I don't have any role models that I have about career in my, the same career as the one that I'm having purely, I. But I, I really, I really think that what, what's helped me to, to, to be inspired, really inspired me is people that wrote across the positive exchange in the past.

Uh, people that, uh, spread happiness, uh, but also people that were very, very motivated, very [00:57:00] stubborn. So people that have similar features as me in this way and people, women that, in this case, uh, I've always felt very powerful. Uh, one above all, I dunno, uh, if all the audience would know is if you have the chance to look at the documentary.

Uh, she was very, very motivated and, uh, very authentic. So. What I really appreciate in another woman is the authenticity, the honesty, the uh, the, the ability of communicating. Uh, because for example, she was able to speak in so many languages, and this was for me, you know, especially as a kid, like, wow, this woman can speak with everyone.

And this is my number one, uh, [00:58:00] inspiration. Being able to speak with everyone and being able to communicate in an easy way with. Whoever is in France. 

Mirela: One last thing, uh, Dan, you've been a huge supporter of mine, and I know I'm not the only one. Uh, but when you talk about, uh, women lifting each other up, uh, it makes me think on, uh, what you've done for so many of us.

Um, so it's not only me, but uh, also the other, uh, team members of the, uh, we have, and of course, our, uh, clients. Uh, if someone listening wants to pay, uh, that forward, uh, but isn't sure where to start, uh, what's one small, uh, way that can support other women in the industry today, 

Daniela: you can support someone else only if you are kind to yourself, first of all.

So if you don't support yourself first, you cannot support anyone. Uh, and the best way to support yourself is to be very [00:59:00] honest. So, you know, being very open. Don't, uh, never. I, I, I don't think I've ever wanted to be perceived as, uh, someone that doesn't want to share. Sometimes I even overshare what I think, what I do, my experience, uh, my, my, my, my challenges.

Uh, the more I believe that the more we talk, the, the more we talk, the better it is, you know, uh, let's not have any topics that we cannot discuss about. And also, uh, this, I believe that this is the best way to support other women, to be honest with you, because sometimes we are afraid to pick up, but sometimes even more, [01:00:00] uh, between women, you know?

So it's like I. I would love to see women being more honest and open and authentic. Um, especially in moments where the confidence might be low, because this is when you open yourself to be vulnerable also. And, and sometimes, uh, what you will get, even if it's just, you know, uh, you got this, you can make it.

I know you will make it, you should go for that role. Uh, I believe you, uh, you can achieve this. Whatever goal can make a difference. Uh, but the, the most important thing is to be able to share, uh, what's going on and on on a bigger level, I would love to see women [01:01:00] creating more faces. Where they can connect, uh, manor each other.

So more also, I would say, uh, on a bigger level, uh, yeah, like I might, it's more I'm thinking about, uh, events, uh, but like a moment, a space, uh, where women come together and collaborate. I know that there are many awards, of course, when women get recognized, but what happens before, you know, the conversation, the discussion, this is something that I would love to see, to see more because I believe that women often, uh, navigate and have the stay issues, unfortunately.

And being able to share that [01:02:00] can create so much power in the community. Uh, and of course the more, the more we support each other. The stronger. Uh, we 

Mirela: Dani, thank you truly for such an honest and inspiring conversation. Uh, your journey is not just a reflection of personal growth, uh, but it's a reflection of, uh, what's possible when crio curiosity, uh, courage and community came together.

Uh, at Tangoo we talk a lot about creating space, uh, space to grow, to lead, uh, space, to make mistakes, and to support one another. Uh, and today's conversation, uh, was such a powerful reminder of, um, why that matters. To everyone that is listening, whether you're navigating your next step, uh, building your voice in this industry, or, um, simply showing up as your full self.

Um, I wanted to let you know that we see [01:03:00] you and, uh, we are here with you. Uh, if you'd like to connect, uh, continue the conversation or learn more about, um, what we're building at Tangoo, we'd love to hear from you. You can both find, uh, me and Dani on LinkedIn or reach out, uh, directly through Tangoo's channels.

Uh, thank you again for joining us and let's keep pushing forward, uh, lifting each other up and shaping the future where everyone has the opportunity to thrive together. Thank you and have a good day. 

Daniela: Thank you.